FR Steering Committee
September 11, 2023
Joel Hilldebrand-Alberta/North
James Leblanc-Halifax/Nova Scotia
Jordan Rinehart-New Brunswick/ Newfoundland
Rick DesAutels- Prairies
Ben Godin-Ontario
Josh Peterson-British Columbia
Steeve Granbios-Quebec
Paul Jones-OPI
Call to order 09:00
Reading of harassment statement
Introductions of members
Informal conversation on 25% strike deductions. All members agree to take care of their local members. Interest is keeping funds local and distributing local.
09:30 June winger National President
Motion for binding arbitration route put forward for SV table.
PSAC runs vote.
UNDE and USJE will have significant input.
TC had binding arbitration in 2008(roughly) are not overly happy the results.
Strikes-agreement for minimum staffing with essential agreement levels. UNDE wanted this done locally but this did not happen.
Plan before next strike. Paul Dagenais and Paul Jones were taking care of essential service lists for union side. Discussion on minimum job requirements. Locals should have a post-strike plan to prepare for next strike to learn what was done well and needs improvement. UNDE is having a post-strike action plan with the department.
Staffing Vacancy reports. Fire fighters reporting no staffing reports. Must be raised at local LMCC and then up to national LMCC’s. UNDE going to public service commission to investigate DND staffing. Louis Bisson has been working with JUNE for years on FR staffing issues.
Valcartier asking about using SWE for staffing for FR for another classification position. June-This needs to be raised at local UMCC. Use vacancy reports to expose this. If you are not receiving the reports, you need to request them.
Halifax- Issues with staffing. Not hiring officers. They are told they only have 2 staffing officers for Atlantic Canada and that is creating hiring delays.
Gagetown-hiring FR0’s. security clearance pulled. Lose chance to hire. June recommended to speak with your Chief and raise at UMCC. No officer meetings, no health and safety meetings. Air quality testing-outside consultant, tested for all the wrong stuff (mold not diesel particulates). Meetings continue to be cancelled. They were installing air exchanger and system is too small to operate correctly. June-Speak with VP Ontario James Potts and VP Quebec Gerald Grenon. BC recommended using NJC Health and Safety Complaint process. Alberta/North recommends 127 and 128 Canada labour code. Attend health and safety meetings. Push to UMCC. June direct Paul to add to FR wellness and Situational meetings. Gagetown has major issues with staffing. Members staying back for multiple days.
PT Test-Conversations from Fire Marshall’s office. Old test was discriminatory based on age and gender. June questions why they are developing a new one and why they focus on this with all other issues. June ensured Criteria for PT test-Safe test, meets Bona Fide Occupational Requirements (BFOR), and is Non-discriminatory. Halifax spoke about Calgary test. Industry leader for PT test. Non punitive. Screening has helped to catch cancers and other illness that were undetected in Calgary fire fighters.
Pension Discussion-Fortier was not friendly towards pension improvements. FB is lobbying hard. PSPAC required looking for any missing classification. Then give a report. June had a meeting with Anita Annand prior to shuffle. Spoke about 25 and out. She was friendly. Was defence minister- now TBS President. June wants her to use her authority as TB minister to get it done. Confidentiality is upmost. If we make it public about the PSPAC and the subcommittee it will work against us.
Esquimalt-Staffing-keeping equity is difficult. We train them and they get grabbed by neighbouring department who are also looking to hire equity. June-Need to start tracking staff losses.
June left meeting at 10:55
ODM 11:00-Genvieve Francoeur
1 of 2 assistant managers
Nicole Schaff is the other.
ODM helps with RTW, Medical retirement, and accommodations.
Sick leave/LTD requirements-
Sick leave as per the collective agreement. Must use whole bank before disability or employment insurance. 13 week waiting period for LTD. Will not pay prior to that. Sick time may be used for waiting periods. Employment insurance can be used until LTD if member has no sick leave.
IOD leave-If the employee has leave credits, they use it while waiting for comp decision. If covered, will be refunded once approved. 660 (Injury on duty leave code) leave code can only be entered by Pay Center with ODM. As per TB policy 130 calendar days. Decision can be made to extend by a commanding officer. It is usually only for short term. GECA covers 130 days. (She is pretty sure). Injury on Duty Leave Treasury Board Policy-Specific information concerning provincial compensation benefits may be obtained from the appropriate regional office of Labour Canada. EDSC) Phoenix Pay system causes issues with leave due to pay info. Section 34 managers are entering differently. Time delays identity at 20 days due to section 34 manager delays. 20 day waiting period does not start until file reaches the pay center. Using ODM is voluntary. Employee or management must go to ODM if outside workplace injury, this is causing gaps where members may not get picked up by ODM. Injury on duty leave is automatically sent to ODM. ODM is at capacity. Unable to take on more cases currently.
Questions on RTW change of schedule. Discussion around protected human rights such as family status. Employer does not have the right to change your schedule pattern that will affect your home life. Your doctor can assist in this along with a union rep. ODM has a TIP sheet “what are functional limitations”? Light duties-who sets light duties. Doctor, employer and employee.
SLA (Service Level Agreement) with AAACT-Accessibility Accommodation Adaptive Computer technology to help members to get equipment for accommodation.
LUNCH 12-1
13:00 CFFM Benoit Gagnon and PSP Jennifer Hevey
Status Updates on:
–Carcinogen Reduction Program-final stages of Fire Marshall Directive. Using old one right now. WARD system will be completed. $370,000 to complete vehicle. We did this on vehicles due to infrastructure requirement. All new vehicles will come with this. Filters should last 5 years, but they do not. Start-up time on system and high idle system changing from 35 to 15 seconds reduce time to save filters. Issue with backing up is a problem. Not enough time. This is a local requested to be fixed. 22 vehicles being fitted right now. Contractors put in WARD system. Not through TEME. 2 techs from US come to install. Cost approx. $17,000. Maintenance is filter changes. This will be done by our local people.
Next battle for carcinogen is yellow and red zone to ensure eating/living area/work out space is away from truck area.
Gagetown raising testing issues within their hall. Lack of health and safety meetings. Members have done everything recommended by the CFFM over the past few years with no results due to local management. Former CFFM Voss worked hard to get Gagetown work moving. New CFFM Fugulin is tracking. He is from the infrastructure world. Ben stating this time will be different. CFFM will be meeting all Fire Chiefs. He has a more human touch and looks for common ground and common goals. Infrastructure limit of $10,000,000. Keeping under that will keep it local.
–Foam/Foam Replacement (CANFORGEN)-
Latest info is C8 foam should not be used outside base property. Haven’t provided proper template for use outside base. C6 is just as bad as C8 and we will deal with this until we get the lesser of 2 evils Fluorine free foam. We should not be bringing current class b foam to mutual aid if it is C8. C6 is not quite as bad but is still not good. Moving from AFFF to F3. Research programs being run to find a solution. F3 does not have PFAS but still shows impact on environment and is no less dangerous. CFFM working to reduce and remove exposure. 3m Novax system-has PFAS. F3 mils spec will be coming in the new year enabling a move. Then procurement. If it works, we will have a PFAS free environment. Will be competing against USA for procurement as they have a deadline of October 2024. PFAS have been found in water table 43km down from Borden where foam was used. Training foam-down the road we will use alternative methods to test foam capabilities. Foam direction-Canforgen-02620
Training Standards/Training Opportunities
What does the CFFM plan to do to provide training?
You can use a local school. Needs to be Pro Board or IFSAC approved. Its already embedded FMD 1004. Sector commander and skills course will be increasing at Borden. FR4 competition to replace Pierre Blackburne. 24 applicants. 16 of those are ex-military.
Length of Time Vehicles Out of Service
Not tracked by CFFM. Asked questions-procurement is one of the main issues. Can we change the procurement for fire apparatus to urgent to speed up procurement.
Relationships must be developed and nurtured to help get work done.
Taking 2-4 years to get a vehicle. Military acquires vehicles.
Post meeting-(Response provided to FR Rinehart by CFFM regarding CFB Gagetown vehicles)
OP Lentus – Wildland Deployments
This was answered by the DND Minister already.
We do mop up. Outside of mutual aid we will never be sent for forest fires. This is not our mandate.
We train military members for mop up and this should be outside of our regular shifts. This is not part of our job and should be when on overtime not regular shift.
Wildland Designation
Initial procurement. The issue is cost most likely. Fire chiefs engage life cycle managers at CFFM.
CFAD Rocky Point – Rodent Infestation at Rocky Point and CFAD Bedford
CFFM has not been tracking new fire hall.
CFFM will engage RPOP’s.
Bring up with base safety.
CFFM Directive – Special Rescue
Not on radar. New DAOD
New version of FMD 1004 annex specific.
Use existing tools to leverage for training and funds.
Right to refuse should be used.
Injury on Duty Leave
Gaps in members not being picked up. Not in CFFM purview but will bring up at Fire Chief Symposium tomorrow.
DAOD Staffing – Increase?
DRDC research mandated to research established requirements. Been 20 plus years since last update with staffing ratio. Is 5 minimum sufficient- DRDC said they cannot do that. Major Stevens has asked HR to contract someone. Need actuary, finance and operational people.
CFFM goal is to increase minimum staffing and total staffing based on data.
HELO Standby
FMD 1004
Lack of knowledge from group requesting service. Crash in Gander had no response and military did not know there was no trained rescue.
Firefighter Total Health Program (PSP) Jennifer Hevey
hevey.jennifer@cfmws.com 613-219-1446
Did a tour beginning of the year of most halls. We have access to PSP service like R2MR and
Health Promotion. Access to programs like yoga, conditioning classes, stretching, injury prevention. Contact Jennifer Hevey. She wants to support civilian side. Have a rep from every hall on the committee. Halifax has a rep from each shift for wellness.
Watch deadline for wish lists. Every hall should have a list ready. Military and civilian rotate.
Last year was $7500 for each hall.
Discussions around national pools and clothing delays. National pool was an HR initiative and no information from Ben Gagnon. Ben advised we speak to ADM Mat about clothing delays on day 2.
Day 2 09:00
Recap on yesterday. Members happy with information provided by guest speakers.
Time spent working on speeches for meeting with Minister Anita Anand.
9:20 Work on annex for Post-Strike Analysis
10:00- Andre Marc Dallaire- Protective Clothing, Dress uniform
Why does it take so long to acquire gear. Answer-Oversite by a manager to ensure it has met all standards. ADMN Mat-We only have 1 person working on. Government declares purchases will be fair and competitive. Trade agreements affect this. FR gear has few suppliers. Over $25,000 must have a Statement of requirement produced. Cannot under-describe requirement. Statement of work produced and given to possible suppliers. Cannot specify brands etc. as this is not competitive. Then bid evaluation from suppliers. Choose supplier from there. Catalogue it Clothing 26 sizes-male and female. 15 minutes to catalogue. Each size has its own number, order and bring in. Logistik Unicorp won contract to supply large amount of equipment. They must show fairness, but test isn’t as high for them as they have been chosen already to purchase equipment. Trials are vital to ensure this process runs smooth. Technical authority on ADM will oversee Logistik Unicorp. ADM Mat has 1 person to oversee this, which can cause delays. Why can’t we purchase locally? We have a national purchase with a single approved supplier. Station wear, bunker gear and wildland all end of cycle. Staffing is causing the issue. Marc has a team of 15 Technical authority for 500 pieces of equipment. Paul applied pressure to Marc to answer how things can be changed. We cannot continue to accept things the way they are. Speak to CFFM about local purchase for clothing. We can look at carving FR out of Logistik Unicorp. Contract with Logistik Unicorp was built to help ADM Mat. Question on UCR’s. Bunker gear should have UCR submitted. ADM mat gets requirements from CFFM and CFFM gets it from us.
Wildland
Members get fitted for new gear and do not receive it.
Some gear delivered in July, tried to rush. Pushing for the pants specifically. Pants have been chosen and will be coming soon. Uppers have also been chosen. Wildland brand will be True North. Waiting on new USN from Logistik Unicorp. Delivery TBD
Jacket
3 in 1 jacket
Raincoat
This should be expedited to help with cancer reduction as many members use our bunker coats to stay warm. ADM Mat has no awareness on this item. Email from 2018 speaking to development of coat was beginning. Paul to verify with CFFM where this is at. ADM Mat-Marc.
Bunker Gear
No update due to TA working on station wear and wildland.
Station Wear
Prioritized station wear-Uniform was chosen. Pants supplier were changes due to NFPA standard not being met. 4-7 months. Blauer for shirt and pants. Pants sizing was changed due to NATO sizing. Will old stock be used? No clear answer.
Verify brand. ADM Mat believes Station Wear, pants, clothing, sweaters-Blauer but not confirmed.
Order of Procurement
Station wear
Wildland
Bunker
Flashover hood
Gloves and boots
**Response for clarification received from ADM Mat-Andre Marc Dallaire after meeting.**
Clarifications:
Sizing:
Wildland:
For the pants, it is OEM/ civilian sizing. Waist will start at 30 and go in 2in increments, upper limit of waist size is TBD. Length will be 30 to 36 in 2in increments.
Station wear:
For the pants, it is OEM / Civilian sizing. Waist will start at 30 up to 46 in 2in increments, length will be 28 up to 36 in 2in increments for each waist size. This matches what we currently have in-service. The other sizes (waist 28, 48, 50, 52) will be available at a later date, at least another 12 months, and will be available as special order only.
Supplier for new PPE
Wildland:
Trial identified pants from ‘True North’. Those will be procured
Trial identified shirt from ‘True North’. True north will not be able to provide the shirt with the reflectors and hook and loop, and so we have turned to NWG for the shirt. This shirt will be a new design, not the current shirt also supplied by NWG, with improvement, and a different fabric. It is closer to the ‘True North’ shirt.
Station wear:
Pants, shirt, ‘officer’ shirt will be supplied by Blauer. Sweater will be supplied by another supplier
Timelines
Wildland:
12 to 18 months.
The timelines are the same as the Station wear, but as indicated, we are putting priority on the station wear, and so cataloguing in mostly not started.
Station wear:
After further discussion with my team, I think they were optimistic on one aspect of their timeline. I would estimate that 9 to12 month delivery is more realistic. But we are working on a plan to keep the 5 to 7 months on at least a random selection of sizes. (size 34 waist could be available, but no the 36, for example) Explanation: the cataloguing is mostly complete but we have NSNs for only 1/3 of the items. Since they come from the USA, we have no control on the time to obtain the remaining NSNs. We are not able to make the items available in the system and with Logistik Unicorp without the NSN.
3 in 1 jacket (bomber jacket):
There is a misunderstanding on the requirement for FR on the 3 in 1 jacket. If this jacket does not require to be FR, confirmation must be received from CFFM.
To be exact, there is currently no official requirement for this item. This will need to be request by CFFM to the Clothing Governance Steering committee.
Priority of this piece of clothing should be confirmed at the same committee.
Questions:
Will current stock of PPE (station wear pants in particular) that is of poor quality be disposed or will stock be expended before new stock is issued?
To be confirmed. Please allow me a week.
Are UCR being received by the life cycle manager?
To be confirmed. Please allow me a week.
ADM Mat left at 11:45
Work continued Post Strike Analysis and Speeches for Minister Anand
Meeting was adjourned at 12:30 for lunch and committee to relocate to PSAC national office for meeting with TB Minister. Meeting with minister was for 30 minutes. After Introductions each member told personal stories about our members and the need for pension improvements. Chris Aylward reminded the minister that pension improvements can be added to next budget for approval. The minister spoke about current project for PSPAC to find any missing classifications for improvements. Chris made it very clear that she does not have to wait for the report and can recommend the improvements immediately. The minister was empathetic to our stories and committed to looking at the information provided. No commitments were made. Meeting ended after approx. 30 minutes.
Committee adjourned after this meeting. Next meeting via zoom TBD
Post-strike analysis
Recognize the essential service list were outdated.
Need to speak to local executives.
Speaking to the 25% levy. Members were not informed they would need to pay.
Pre-strike
Need to verify lists to ensure it is accurate. Unrepresented employee list
Who is responsible? PSAC is responsible with Employer.
Timely notification to verify.
Who informs the membership?
Clear communication on essential duties from national office.
Consult with Fire halls to ensure staffing levels. The committee is unanimous that all fire halls should be essential. We believe any non-essential FR creates division among local memberships. This also affects safety as well.
Issues with too many members going to closest picket line. Different components all showing up at one workplace.
Clear communication on what is allowed on a picket line and what isn’t.
Accommodations for medically unfit people who were dropped or lost all together needs to be established well in advance.
During
Issues with chiefs getting through picket lines, need for list of unrepresented staff.
Issues with picket line locator.
Logistics
Clear communication from one source for daily information.