February 7-8, 2012

Firefighter Committee Minutes

UNDE FR Steering Committee Minutes
February 7-8, 2012

In Attendance


Randy Walker                                     Chair

Blair Winger                                       Alberta

Dave Wesley                                       Ontario

Carl Darveau                                       Quebec

Don Martin                                         Halifax

Ron LaRoy                                           British Columbia

Orlando Hamm                                   Saskatchewan

John MacLennan                                 National President

John Hall                                             Consultant

Brendalee Blaney                               Staff Resource


Brother Walker opened the meeting at 08:30 a.m. and Brother MacLennan provided the following opening remarks:


-he welcomed everyone to Ottawa – stated there wasn’t really much more new to report – indicated the pension issue has been pushed back


Brother Winger indicated that Brother McCarthy from the PSAC wanted UNDE to attend the upcoming pension meetings


Brother MacLennan stated that ships crews were there as well – classification – government seriously looking at classification reform – the PA group  – take a look at that group as they are the largest group – for the short version, the government is looking at all unions not just the PSAC, e.g., FI and PG and CR 4 or 5 – those three work descriptions will somehow cross each other – bind all three into one group and call it a new classification – one classificzation – 3 groups or levels – looking at generic route – few classifications – fewer collective agreements – fewer unions – don’t want to deal with lots of unions – only three – PIPS, PSAC and CAPE – don’t know the impact for FRs because FRs are operational – he stated we needed to discuss how far the FR steering committee was going to go with the FR classification standard given what the government is doing and where they want to go in regards to classification


Brother MacLennan went on to stated the Pay Study is there


Brother LaRoy informed the committee that the PSAC Regional office in Vancouver has hired a lawyer or the member in BC dealing with cancer



Brother MacLennan then spoke on the Fire Fit competition – indicated he has not heard anything more from the department in regards to the mil/civ competition that was discussed in Medicine Hat in September


Brother Winger indicated that this was not discussed at the Wellness Committee meeting that took place in January


Brother Walker thanked Brother MacLennan – he then introduced himself for those committee members who did not know him – he indicated that the committee would have a busy next couple of days – that they would have some discussion on the pay study and then turned the meeting over to John Hall who had been working on FR work descriptions for the committee


John Hall – noted a word of caution as a lot of the reference documents were 10-11 years old and even the work descriptions were 7 years old – he said they would take a look at Tab 3 (of the binder that was prepared for the committee) – he also handed out a document entitled the “Apprenticeship Question” – could be equated to FR 00  – he stated he would leave that to the committee members to look at  and to bear in mind it was 10 years old


-need to look at FR 01 – now going to call work descriptions FFs just as an abbreviation so we don’t confuse FR for FFs


Brother Walker indicated this was more for ease of use by committee members – to show was we are proposing


Brother Winger explained how FR groups and levels i.e., FR 01, FR 02, FR 03, etc., refer solely to pay levels


John Hall – no flexibility in the organizational structure – if add something to FR work description suddenly would have two (2) people at same rate of pay – this is problematic


-the group discussed who reports to whom at their respective work sites


A lengthy discussion then ensued around the various FR work descriptions


Following a lunch break, the Steering Committee conducted an “in camera” session excluding the consultant


Following the in camera session the FR steering committee members decided that given what the government was proposing around classification, they felt it would be a better use of time for the classification review to be placed on the back burner and to use the time in developing data around the pay study  – the committee members were all in agreement with that route – the committee provided direction to the consultant in regards to the type of study they thought would be most beneficial in addressing their concerns, i.e., a National Study and what data etc., could be compiled in that regard


Following a discussion on the Pay Study, the Steering Committee returned to the review of the current classification standard and work descriptions for the during of the committee’s meeting.


The meeting was adjourned at 2:45 p.m.


Brother Walker thanked everyone for the participation.


The next FR Steering Committee meeting to be determined.