February 2011

Firefighter Committee Minutes

UNDE FR Steering Committee

Minutes

February 17 – 18, 2011

 

 

In Attendance

 

Blair Winger                                        Chair

George Peacock                                  ON

Neil Perry                                            NL/NB

Don Martin                                         NS

Ron LaRoy                                           BC

Steve Blair                                           MB/SK

Jason Elder                                          AB/North

Brendalee Blaney                               Staff Resource

 

 

Thursday February 17, 2011

 

Brother MacLennan spoke to the Steering Committee on the FR petition – he handed out two letters and an adjudication decision.  He spoke on the Occupational Structural Review – go’s wants fewer unions – wants to go down to 3 – PIPS, PSAC and CAPE – done blending WD together – if unions can’t decide who will represent who, the gov’t will force certification vote

 

Brother MacLennan also went on to state that UNDE was invited to PSAC to talk about your classification – attractive as being unique – this is when PSAC want to put the FR petition – we can respond to this – as him to approach TB to see if they have an interest – proceed to board with a hearing – Brother MacLennan then went on to state he wasn’t sure how successful we would be and that he could ask Brother Gordon if the FRs could get a special audience with TB to pitch their case as to why their issues are not well addressed in SV Bargaining Unit.

 

Brother Winger expressed his disappointment that Brother Gordon said he would take it forward and he did not

 

He identified three areas of concern:  occupational structural review, FRs to talk to TB as part of structural review and Gordon to present request to PSLRB.  Brother MacLennan reiterated that he would make a request to Gordon to get an audience with TB under structural and asked that we focus on the structural review stating he would employ John Hall – get him to help with the structural review.

 

Brother Winger stated that we should get John Hall to get a presentation made for us so we are all giving the same information, then administratively, we need to see when the next occupational structure review meeting is to see if we can get a meeting with TB – make an application .  Brother Winger stated he would contact John Hall and see about the preparation of a presentation.

 

It was decided that two members of the Committee would go, Brothers Ron LaRoy and Don Martin and make a presentation to Peter MacKay and Stockwell Day and that the presentation could also be given to the occupational structural review committee.

 

Brother MacLennan then spoke on presumptive cancer – he stated we wanted an answer and he was going to give him (Gordon) a deadline.    He stated he would write a letter asking for a response on presumptive cancer.  Plan B would be an application to the PSLRB.

 

Brother MacLennan informed the committee that UNDE was hiring someone familiar with DCC and following a brief discussion thanked the committee.

 

A discussion then ensure regarding extinguishers and how the maintenance was handled at the various locations.  It was decided to raise the issue with Pierre Voisine (who would be addressing the Committee 18 Feb).

 

A discussion then ensued regarding what is classified as a day off and what is considered a shift.  Brother Winger stated that anything that crosses over midnight – the day with the most hours is day of work and that we had not been successful in the past with “definition of a day”.    A lengthy discussion ensued regarding 8.4 hours for lieu days and 12 hours for disciplinary fines.

 

A discussion then took place with regards to Apprenticeship  and Brother Winger stated that the was an attempt to try to put FR group in there – and the question was raised as to the benefit to the employer when there are already people lined up to be trained.  He indicated he had had discussion with Brother Mark Miller on this issue.  It was also stated that the certification has to be NPFA and that we didn’t want to get military NFPA certified as they will lose them and we will see a ghettoization of the workforce.

 

The Committee then went on to speak about presumptive cancer and it was mentioned by Brother Elder that mutual aid agreements can’t help.  Brother LaRoy wanted it to be part of presentation to be given to Day and McKay.

 

Brother Winger next spoke about Body Bulletins – it was stated that some sights were not getting them or had never seen them.  It was decided that since there was going to be a wellness representative in each hall that the wellness rep could ensure they were distributed within the work place.  The following names were put forward for wellness reps:

 

Chris Wagner – Halifax

Norm Amirault – BC

Brother Steve Blair requested time to submit a name

Nathan Clarke – Borden – Email address = nathan.clarke@forces.gc.ca
Brother Perry stated he would supply name

 

Brother Winger then went on to speak about Fitness Evaluations – he stated that the Chief at Shilo had contacted Nicole Thomas – CFPSA – and that she had heard of a fitness program in CFFM’s office – NFPA 1583.  Brother Winger stated that he had made it clear what the adjudicator’s decision had stated (in regards to both parties – the employer and the union jointly developing a new program) and that we were not interested in going down that road.  Brother Blair stated that they had a fitness trainer – compulsory – something different everyday and most of the time it was structured but that there was no testing.  Brother Winger expressed concern that it may come up and Brother Blair stated he had been asked about that and that he would have another talk with the Chief in Shilo.

 

Brother Winger then spoke about medicals – NFPA medical requirements and asked if there was any appetite to look at medical tests that were more thorough that what was in place now.  After a lengthy discussion, it was decided that this would be discussed more when Pierre Voisine joined the group.

 

Friday February 18, 2011

 

Pierre Voisine addressed the group – he stated the time was right to change how we do business and that there had been a lot of activity in the past year.

 

As a Fire Service:

 

CDS want FRs on ground in Haiti

He understands FRs integral part of organization

We did same type of thing in Vancouver Op Podium (Olympics)

See huge opportunity for all FRs to participate – not there yet

 

Eqpt and Fleet:

 

Hope the members present had seen some improvement and that an issue in Halifax

had been address and he hoped they were happier now (Don stated halfway there)

 

Staffing:

 

Huge difficulties in staffing – Army won’t backfill positions – sat in front of CLS to

explain why they had to back fill those positions – everyone’s 2nd guessing – we’ve been

able to win those positions in Petawawa

 

he stated that in 2009 ran over 9,000 less than 220 were actual fires – no other FD in

North America can boast these numbers – numbers due to all the hard work – from

trucks to prevention cell – overall of Fire Service – we’re doing great things but

acknowledged that there are some gaps and some things need to be fixed

 

He stated he would like to focus in the future – need to ensure box of credibility is full at

all times – everything we do has to be built on credibility – helps at the bargaining table

as well

 

Working on trying to pinpoint what we need to do to make FS better.  First thing – we don’t talk, we’re fighting, fighting over PT test, fighting hurts our credibility – need to restore credibility and relationships.

 

Communication with DND portion of house (not talking Military side either) – need to

find a way to communicate directly with FRs – not something filtered through FC – need

to find way to communicate Strategic Area to workers and vice versa – think the way is

via this committee and CFFM’s office – come up with concepts, plans and do some work.  He also stated that the Wellness Committee was in as good a shape as it has ever been.

 

He wanted to make a proposal – FR Steering Committee and CFFM’s office getting closer in getting things done – Restore the Pride type of program.  He stated they would be focusing on civilian training over the next few years.

 

He proposed the following:

 

Plan 1:

 

  1.  Policy – clear direction of where we want to go – type of training we want people to have – TQ 5, NFPA – short skills course – send to Academy for two (2) weeks – we’ve done two (2) so far – problem is resources – hired two (2) FR 4s and they will report to him – hiring a national FR 4 training officer – in their office – military doing QR5s.  He went on to state they are building fire towers in all locations – they would supply training plans – offer packages – sent out to PC and DPCs – build training areas on each base – that would provide tool to train on a daily basis.  He stated we have yet to lose an FR and that while we were fighting over PT we were not training and the was concerned that we were going to kill somebody and that they were putting focus on this and that they needed the FR Steering Committee to help them with this – he was reaching out – he stated he needed Brother Winger as the VP to be put on civilian training committee

 

  1. He went on to state that when they hold courses at the Academy they are looking for someone from the Steering Committee to provide them with FRs to act as safety officers during these courses – i.e., saying we want so and so and to go on these courses – we want FRs to tell us – they want FRs to look after the protection of FRs they send to the Academy.

 

 

 

 

 

Plan 2:

 

  1. He stated that jointly “we manage fire service”.  He stated there was a need to talk the same talk – agree with what we look like – have committee to look at our clothing – we have some limitations – we can do some work on uniforms – let’s work on logos, crests, etc., draft a policy – jointly agreed by the CFFM and this group on housekeeping things like crests and logos.  Brother Winger brought up the issue of rank recognition and Pierre stated it was more complicated with less maneuvering.   They will develop a policy and run it by the steering committee first.

 

He stated that he felt that these were incremental small steps and that if we worked on these two things that we couldn’t fail – we have to work on things jointly.

 

Brother Martin expressed concern over the Chiefs being the roadblocks and Pierre stated that it was his job to educate them and that we need to train the officers in the real world and that we needed to put together some good training – management position is not power/control thing – office development stuff – need to understand CA, HR “dreams without resources are hallucinations”.  He stated that they would have to deal with fall-out from Chiefs.

 

Pierre then provided the committee members with the organization and staffing in the CFFM’s office stating they were now heavily civilian – he stated that he felt they were not doing a good job on messaging that that they do lots of good things that nobody hears about and that this need to change.  He stated that anything that could be done to aid in our credibility would only help us and that we could only have credibility if we work towards same goals.

 

Brother LaRoy brought up the participation of FRs from BC for the September memorial and Pierre stated that they could remind them they are encouraged to send representatives.

 

Pierre reiterated what he was asking from the FR Steering Committee:

 

  1. Tell him and provide safety officers for training  – they could come from different bases – could give short presentation on UNDE as well – CFFM will pay for it – they would train those guys – like to have pool of people and everyone shares the opportunity – every serial someone new comes in

 

  1. Need to do some housekeeping – logos, crest, etc.

 

A discussion then ensued regarding bunker gear and Pierre had indicated that all had been trialed – helmets came with leather patch and the individual’s name on it and that it was going to go to all Army bases first.  He didn’t feel there was a need for a formal MOU between UNDE and CFFM but if that was what was required, they would look at it.

 

Brother LaRoy raised the issue of 4 positions in Nanoose and Pierre stated they had done a report – a risk assessment and that they don’t normally get involved – they are left to determine mil/civ positions.  Brother LaRoy stated it was cheaper for civilians and Pierre reiterated that they don’t get involved in mil versus civ positions and stated that should there be important reasons that they should be civilian, they could look at it again.

 

Brother Blair raised the issue of DCC and how the department was going to protect FRs from DCC.  Pierre stated that CFFM was consulted and they see no issues when it comes to getting inspectors where there isn’t any.  He stated they would not support that hiring practice when a functioning hall was in place and if SWE is an issue they would deal with that issue.  He went on to state that they won’t have DCC FRs or DCC fire departments – they are not going to allow it  unless there is a specific situation like there was in Ottawa.  He stated they have contracted services in a couple of areas and that it doesn’t save money for the employer and he stated the Committee should not worry about Dundurn that they were not going anywhere.  He stated they would move Fire Operation under Ops if they want to take over CE and stated we should not get caught up in rumours.  He stated Dundurn does good work – protection of ammo, they are specialized, trained and they do their work.

 

Brother Martin raised the issue of a mandatory fleet – TEME – FIFO.  Pierre stated they were aware – policy side – to get our trucks moved up the line – each base takes care of it’s own – no controls in place specifically for Esquimalt.

 

Pierre went on to state that he will provide a policy on Tri-Top.

 

Roundtable

 

Brother Martin raised the issue of Train the Trainer for EMR and that they were just getting it up and running and Brother Peacock stated they had a guy dedicated on the crew and that they go out once a year.  Brother Martin also raised the issue of overtime and lieu and Brother Edler stated that they were doing stuff outside of their WD with no compensation.  Brother Martin stated they had a local arrangement whereby they could get some lieu time.

 

Brother LaRoy stated that they had withdrawn their volunteer services and that other guys have stepped up and took it over.  They are working through the LMCC to try and get guys paid for this – anytime an FR does training they get FR 2 rate – they are still working it out.

 

Brother Winger stated that the wellness rep should be the point of contact in each hall as a wellness rep – CFFM’s office wants rep for each place in their area and that committee members could email names to Brother Winger.

 

Brother Winger then raised the issue of a Cookbook stating it could be used as a fundraiser featuring healthy eating recipes – from all that come in we could pick one randomly – winner gets trip down here for memorial.  Brothers Elder (west) and Gauthier (east) will send out the information and the CFFM will fund cost.

 

The meeting adjourned at 12:15 p.m.